Coming down from Chinese New Year and a season of celebrations, Regional Business Development Managers, Angela Zhou, Andreas Buch, and Matteo Del Zoppo, talk about the world of Beer, Wine, & Spirit, how this market has evolved during the pandemic, and what might be ahead as conditions improve and business's return to welcoming customers. What makes these products unique, and what are their logistics needs to meet the changed demands and tastes of customers?

Chris Parker: Hello, everyone, and welcome to The Expeditors Podcast, where we look at the world of shipping through the lens of a global logistics provider.

Chris Parker: I'm your host, Chris Parker, and today's topic, the booming business of booze. Yes. The beer, wine, and spirits industry has evolved in interesting ways over the last few years, whether it was from customer behaviors to new products hitting the market. But like transporting a very full glass of wine to my wife, they can be a hard product to move, so whether it's spillage or spoilage, what makes beer, wine, and spirits goods unique when it comes to their supply chains?

Chris Parker: Thankfully, I have business development managers Angela Zhou, representing South Asia, Andreas Buch from Europe, and Matteo Del Zoppo from the Americas, to teach me a thing or two. Welcome, everyone.

Angela Zhou: Thank you, Chris.

Andreas Buch: Thank you so much, Chris.

Matteo Del Zoppo: Welcome, Chris.

Chris Parker: All right. So before we get started, and it's so nice to have you all three of you here. I want to get it to know each of you, just a little bit before we start talking. So let's start with Angela, then Andreas, and then Matteo. So Angela, can you give me a little bit about your background?

Angela Zhou: Yes. Sure. I'm Angela, originally from China. Been currently living in New Zealand. I have been doing beer, wine, spirits logistic for more than 13 years, and I'm WSET level three certified, which I have advance wine knowledge.

Chris Parker: You know what you're doing.

Angela Zhou: I love beer, wine. Yeah. I love my product. I love our customers' product. So I love beer, weiss beer is product, and I love wine logistics.

Andreas Buch: Hi Chris, thanks for the opportunity. So I'm Danish originally, but I haven't live in Denmark for the last 25 years. I've been based in markets like South Africa, Chile, and a couple of central European markets. And all of that time, I've been dealing with logistics for beer, wine, and spirits. So I'm not only passionate about the product itself but also around all the logistics and what that implies.

Chris Parker: Matteo?

Matteo Del Zoppo: Yes. Hi, Chris. Well, I work for the company for Expeditors since 15 years. I'm originally from Milan, Italy. And all my life, as you can imagine, I've been drinking wines at a legal age and then moved to the US five years ago to New York, where I had the opportunity to develop some verticals like retail, fashions, and beer, wines, and spirits added to my portfolio.

Chris Parker: So, now that brings us to a good point to switch over to our topic. Help me understand what is going on right now in the world of moving beer, wine, and spirits, or just for conversations, we'll call them BWS, right? So what is happening right now, in this space?

Matteo Del Zoppo: Well, Chris, as you may have noticed in the past couple of years, we had the chance to spend more times in our private households, in our house. With remote working and some difficulties to supply outside. So that brings a development, an increase in consumption, also in beer, wines, and spirits, in private households, more than at the restaurants or from the outside. So, we've seen an increase in the consumption, and overall the industry has performed pretty well in the past couple of years compared to other industries globally.

Andreas Buch: I think also the channels have shifted quite a lot. So you see, new channels like e-commerce are booming in this sector, obviously powered by the issues that Matteo was just calling upon. So a lot of things are going on in the industry.

Angela Zhou: There a lot that happened in the last two years, and it's consistently changing, evolving in the industry as well. In Asia, as a typical emerging market, what I would mention here is at-home consumption because people just decided to understand wine to started drinking wine.

Angela Zhou: But the pandemic gave them more time to sit at home. Now, more opportunity to experience wine, that's actually at home consumption actually, will boost up BWS consumption in this region for the future.

Chris Parker: Folks, in general, are not just drinking more; they're drinking differently, too.

Angela Zhou: Yeah, can be, yeah, you can drink more, can drink better and drink all the different product, especially the newly created product, because we have seen the category in BWS industry keep evolving as well.

Chris Parker: And in terms of kind of yearly demand, and I know that it's a unique time for the last couple years just because consumption is changing. But even before that, alcohol has been around for a very long time, right? What were the yearly trends or the demands that are kind of expected each year in this space?

Angela Zhou: Pandemic is, or COVID definitely, have significant impact onto global BWS industry in terms of the consumption. However, once again, beverage industry has proven itself to be one of the most crisis-proof industry in the world because it's performed the better than we expected at the beginning of COVID.

Angela Zhou: And well, overall global consumption was declined still; however, the decline rate actually was way lower than we exactly... In back to 2020, initial expectation was -12%, and then it was adjusted to 8%, but at the end, it was about 6% only.

Chris Parker: Really?

Angela Zhou: So overall, this industry actually was doing much better, even for champagne, that's typical a celebration drinks actually. Have been doing great during COVID. Yeah, working from home actually, in some way, help us save some living expenses, so people have money to spend.

Chris Parker: Of course.

Angela Zhou: They can definitely can spend on their favorite drinks.

Chris Parker: Now, Angela, you said that beer, wine, and spirits proved to be a crisis-proof industry. What do you mean by that?

Angela Zhou: Well, for us, have been working in beverage logistic for 10, 20 years. Actually, we have witnessed all the industry changes over the years. Since 2008, 2009, that was the global economy crisis. And then we have SARS and then COVID. Actually, during the whole period, BWS industry have been proved highly resistant to global changes. That's why sometime we feel lucky we are in this industry because when economy was down, people were unhappy, they drink, when economy went well, people have more money to spend, then drink as well. So overall, yeah, it's a great industry to work for.

Chris Parker: Yeah. And for Andreas and Matteo, in your respective areas, what kind of trends or such have you been seeing?

Andreas Buch: I think in Europe, you see a big shift towards cooler climate products. I mean, the industry is, maybe not under scrutiny, but there is a lot of focus on biodynamic, ecological wines and everything that comes with that. There is a lot of demand in low alcoholic products or non-alcoholic products. So that is, all of those elements have both impacted the supply, but it's definitely also impacting the demand in quite a few markets.

Matteo Del Zoppo: In my area, I would say that I've been noticing an improve, an increase in diversifications of labels and the offerings at all levels: at restaurants, at supermarkets, has been increasing and people are looking for different varieties of wines from different regions and trying to taste and to experiment new experiences into wines. So also, that was reflected into the industry, so a growth in the portfolio of the labels managed by each company. There's been a wider range of centralizations, concentrations of different labels, different products within the same major importers in the US.

Matteo Del Zoppo: US is market driven by major importers worldwide. So I would say that an increase in the portfolio and increase in the different diversifications of the offerings, from the grants, from the companies, has been increased pretty much in the past few years.

Chris Parker: Could one of you describe, I guess, how is this industry laid out in terms of the competitors within here, who are the players in beer, wine, and spirits?

Andreas Buch: So traditionally, you have a grower, who's producing the wine, and then if you follow the chain, there will be an importer on the other side, he could be selling to a wholesaler or a distributor, and then you have a retailer, or you have what you call, on trade. So the whole restaurant and hotel segment. So these are the different players, and then obviously, lately, e-commerce and other internet-driven companies or business models have occurred.

Chris Parker: And then how competitive has the space been? Especially given the last couple years. I know that there's a lot of new products that I see coming out, but is there a lot of acquisitions and stuff happening right now? How competitive is this? Angela? Let's start with you.

Angela Zhou: Yeah, I think it is the quite competitive markets already, with the consuming, consumption demand. The large companies will try to increase their markets share by acquiring small companies, especially for unique niche product.

Angela Zhou: And well, all the companies try to find more distribution channels, of course, e-commerce of course, and be more creative on product and be more creative or evolving to build up customer experience to differentiate themselves to their competitors.

Chris Parker: I guess it's been mentioned a couple times here, but e-commerce. Right, it's been brought up at least three times. I've counted now on my fingers here.

Chris Parker: If e-commerce is making it more... Beer, wine, spirits products, more accessible to the consumer at home, how is it impacting the restaurants, the hospitality industry, and what changes is that requiring from forwarders like us or from people shipping on their own?

Andreas Buch: I think it requires a service provider that is very agile and able to adapt to the market conditions and are able to support customers in much wider geographies compared to previous. So, yeah, I think that's one of the main impacts.

Matteo Del Zoppo: So you know Chris also, these leads to pointing the fingers to a switch in the modality, by which wines, beer, wines, and spirits are transported. Typically, a few years ago, the majority of BWS were moving through ocean freight, ocean carriers tanks.

Matteo Del Zoppo: While right now, also because of the e-commerce, this new channel of selling, transit time is increasingly important. And there's a big switch from ocean to air freight for beer, wines, and spirits. So that's also had been a big switch, a big change, had a big impact in the industry.

Matteo Del Zoppo: Traditionally, companies didn't have too much budget for air freight allocated to air freight in the past. While right now, we are seeing increasingly air freight RFQs, or air freight request for quotations, from everywhere to, everywhere, basically to satisfy the increasing demand for a diversified products.

Chris Parker: That's a good point. Moving to air is speed to market, a factor that really drives the decision-making in the beer, wine, and spirit space. Do they need to be getting the products out as fast as possible?

Andreas Buch: I think it's an excellent question, Chris. A lot of producers in this world, especially around the spirits and the wines, are really trying to develop more exclusive products. So there is a trend for premiumization across the board if you will. And very much related to that trend, you see often a desire for direct to consumer or being able to deal with your consumer in a faster fashion. And that's where different solutions come into play.

Chris Parker: So, whereas like a hotel or a restaurant could have a larger stock of goods, products are being ordered at a very individual level or down to the residential level. And so they expect those products to be available on hand, right?

Andreas Buch: Yeah. But also, if you travel around in beautiful Piemonte in Italy and you do a couple of wine tastings, and you want to have a couple of those bottles sent home, a lot of companies would be able to support you to get those by air back home fairly quickly.

Chris Parker: Actually, how much is that happening from direct from the manufacturer versus from a distribution center or some kind of holding space?

Andreas Buch: It's probably more for the people who are a bit nerdy about their wines.

Angela Zhou: Because wine tourism was part of the industry too. So directly buying from wineries was increasing because the consumer might think that would be the best way to sourcing the wine. And plus, take the good protection of the wine shipping.

Angela Zhou: And back to your previous question, you mentioned about why people are thinking about air. Actually, timing is one of the important effects here, especially in Q3, Q4, end of the year. It will be the Christmas, New Year, and Chinese New Year period.

Chris Parker: Absolutely.

Angela Zhou: It is a best timing for BWS selling. So what we know, ocean market is so challenging. However, you got to get the product to the consumer market and deliver to consumers. So air is unavoidable option to look at. So in some cases, we even have to look at charter air freight as an option because traditionally, air has been shipped by ocean because it's dense cargo, heavy cargo. However, now air we have seen air is an increasing demand for BWS.

Chris Parker: That's an excellent point that you bring up about being a dense cargo. Because I know that weight may not be so much a factor on a large container ship, right? It holds 10,000 plus containers on there at times, but for air, that's a totally unique situation because they have to weigh it out properly. So by nature of this product, what are the demands and requirements that they need in order to be moved properly, safely, and successfully?

Andreas Buch: I think there are a number of factors that are really important for the traders in this industry. For quite a few products. Temperature is an issue, a lot of these products under excise.

Andreas Buch: So there are additional duties and taxes that has to be covered or managed in transit, but also the safety in terms of both breakage, but also it's... unfortunately a lot of these products are quite fast resellable on the black market if you will. So, all kinds of safety measures are super important for the players in this industry.

Matteo Del Zoppo: Yeah, I would point out to the liability issues, as Andreas was saying, in regards to the excise, whenever you have to deliver wines and in certain countries, in certain areas like in the United States. So definitely, it's crucial to have a partner capable to cope and deal with all the requirements of a specific region. In the US, in particular, we are a pretty well structured to handle all these kind of situations, and we are very well keep to deal with these compliance requirements.

Chris Parker: Yeah. And I want to touch on that, actually, too. What are the compliance requirements needed for beer, wine, and spirits?

Andreas Buch: I think you need to be sure that you are working with a customs broker who is, at all times, aware of latest legislation, and these products being regulated by authorities in most markets legislation can change quite quickly.

Andreas Buch: We've seen that over a number of different administrations in Washington the last couple of years, how fast that could move. And I think you need, really and agile and professional company to manage all those aspects in order to ensure that you are compliant at all steps of the way or at every step of the way when you're bringing your goods into the market.

Matteo Del Zoppo: Being very well connected through the entire supply chain. So working with partners capable to interact one another, that help you to collect all the necessary data that facilitate to be compliant in transmitting all those data to the authorities in order to file properly the entry.

Chris Parker: On the topic of compliance here, I'm half Korean. And so there's a Korean beverage that I really love called makgeolli, right? It is a fermented rice drink of some sort, but it's not quite beer. It's not quite wine. So the FDA... If last time I checked, doesn't know how to classify it properly in terms of whether it's a beer or wine or something that, right. It's just an alcoholic beverage of some sort. So I'm curious, given the variety of beverages out there, new products that are coming out, all these new spaces that are being looked into, is compliance difficult for beer, wine, and spirits?

Angela Zhou: I would say yes, was... It might be different in different countries. However, what you brought up, was totally correct. Following the new products, new category involving in this industry. We have seen that the category actually blurred a bit.

Angela Zhou: Previous, we said alcoholic beverage and then non-alcoholic beverage, but now we have more and more product, which is in the middle somewhere. We need to try to figure out. And the people are more interested into more flavored products as well. So, I'm give you an example. Some customer brought products to us and asked us to help to classify HS code.

Angela Zhou: And it's consist of more than 50 kinds of ingredients in that kind of drinks. Yeah. In this situation, we really need the customer to share all the information about this product. And then, we will need to do a thorough check, probably check with the custom officer, even to find out the right classification before we can import this product.

Chris Parker: Yeah, absolutely. So clear communication, be open with what is in your beverages so that you can classify them properly. Because if you don't, what happens?

Angela Zhou: It will be stopped at customs, your cargo would even continue to arrive to the port, but your cargo wouldn't get into the country. You'll never reach out to your consumers.

Chris Parker: So, actually, I want to talk about those blurred lines a little bit more. So what are some products right now that are changing the way that we look at beer, wine, and spirit products?

Angela Zhou: My first reaction would be shelf life. I have learned my hard lesson about this because I bought to trace off RTD drinks, which is ready to drink, soft drinks, or low alcoholic drinks, but we didn't finish during the party. And then I just left it behind; then it turned out it all expired already.

Angela Zhou: That's remind me, actually, with all the RTD drinks, it's generally have a shorter shelf life. When we drink wine and spirits, you probably never worry about it. It can be sitting there for years. However, with RTD drinks it's supposed to be drunk fresh. So that's need to be taken into consideration for us as a freight forwarder and for consumers as well. So you just buy when you want to drink and check the shelf life, make sure you can your drink is fresh.

Chris Parker: Which brings in the whole conversation of air versus ocean, right. If especially if RTDs have a relatively short shelf life too. Right. And those are, it help me understand those like canned cocktails and things that.

Angela Zhou: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. Generally one year or 18 months, but wine generally we know burgundy last 10 years.

Chris Parker: Okay. So with that out of the way, I want to now know the... Let's talk about a little bit more about supply chain. Distilleries and wineries are kind of funky creatures because they're locked to a specific region. How does that affect how we design supply chains for beer, wine, and spirit customers?

Andreas Buch: I think when you are a global company like we are, and you have boots on the ground in multiple geographies, you are more likely to give a high-end service to those players because you have a proximity to where the production takes place.

Andreas Buch: So if you want to produce champagne as a classic example, you got to be in Champagne. So there's only one region where you can do that. And obviously, we are close by, but the same counts for many other locations around the world where you have a product that is linked to the particularities or the soil or the terroir of a certain place.

Matteo Del Zoppo: Oh yes. In regards to logistics, dealing with a logistics service provider capable to, in a multi-mode approach to the environment, to the business. Having a logistics service provider capable to provide all modes of transportations going from ocean to air, to transcon, to white glove deliveries.

Matteo Del Zoppo: When I think to domestically in the US, delivery to prime location for prime wines, sometimes inside exhibition centers, sometimes inside distribution centers, sometimes inside private households that requires a full detail approach to the bookings, to the delivery to, I mean all these kind of little details that make a difference and having one single service provider, like a one-stop-shop, service provider that can provide you all these arrays of complexity, that helps a lot of those guys in the industry to cope with their requirements in such a changing environment.

Chris Parker: Yeah. Because there are some distributors or large companies out there with, I think one of them I saw had 600 plus product offerings, right? So that flexibility is absolutely key for them to get their products out successfully, whether it's for different shelf lives, varying regions of origin for products, you brought up a high-value thing too. Luxury products are also a consideration to keep here within beer, wine, and spirits. Has that changed over the last couple years? Or is changing?

Angela Zhou: Yes. It's definitely changing. Yeah. People are drinking better now.

Chris Parker: They're not drinking more. They're drinking better products, right?

Angela Zhou: It is. Yeah, no, they're drinking more, and even they drink better. So premiumization actually is one of the trend in beverage industry. We have seen that. We have keep seeing that. Global company are launching premier and super premier product, and they have more emphasized on the customer experience to their VIP customer or high-end customers. And this business actually growing significantly globally as well.

Andreas Buch: Now I think on that topic as well; I think when you have the premiumization, and you are dealing with very demanding, very affluent end customers, you also want to make sure that the route to market is perfectly well managed.

Andreas Buch: When you think about GPS device called Cargo Signal, for example, I don't think that it's a secret that it's becoming so popular because it's measuring all the elements that are interesting for a producer or an importer of these high-end products.

Andreas Buch: They measure the temperature, the humidity, the light effect, the exposure to tilt. And, of course, the GPS location at any given time. So you have really all the components that a trader is interested in. And that way, you ensure that when the goods are handed over to the customer that you have covered for any eventualities, and that hopefully that we meet with all the components, we meet the expectations, and that the goods have been moved correctly.

Chris Parker: Yeah. That's a great point, too, right? We are well in the age of information. And so the tech like the IoT, is definitely something that has been applicable or used within the space, because of high-value goods, needing that visibility on these products, because they want to make sure that things are moving safely and they're getting to where they're supposed to be because they're very expensive products.

Chris Parker: That makes total sense. I want to, as I bring this topic to a close here, I want to ask, I'm thinking of my wife, right? If I make her a vieux carre, why should she care about what's going on when it comes to moving beer, wine, and spirits? And why should she be concerned with any of this?

Angela Zhou: The drinking experience will be different if she doesn't care about how the beverage was shipped, because there are so many factors which could impact the quality of the product.

Angela Zhou: Temperature, humidity, vibration, and of course, the shelf life, this is something we mentioned just now. So well, in the worst case, the beverage could be spoiled or damaged, leakage. However, you probably will smell difference, taste the difference. And then overall give you a bad drinking experience.

Chris Parker: Right. So really, the largest impact to the end customer is not only the supply but also the quality of the product when they, when it's at the point of consumption. Right? So if things are not handled properly within the supply chains or within, with having a good relationship with your partner, who's moving these goods for you, you could have a very poor customer experience at the end of it all.

Chris Parker: Which impacts you as the distillery, as the brewery, as the winery. That's a very good point to understand why does this smell funky? It's because things are a big challenge right now. So then, as a shipper of beer, wine, and spirits, whether brewery, winery, distillery, what are some things coming to light that should be considered or are important to consider when trying to move successfully to avoid spillage, to avoid delays, to avoid shortages, things like that, or has that ship sailed? Are we looking at 2023 at this point?

Andreas Buch: Route and speed to market. I think you need to be very aware what is the route to market and what's the speed to market, and where do you have potential pitfalls, especially right now in the supply chain crunch.

Andreas Buch: We see globally, you really need to be sure that all the elements, whether it's the transportation, both on land, on water, and air, but also the connection with customs brokerage, that everything is seemingly connected and coordinated in a professional way that you don't have the product standing on terminals or in transit that can't be customs cleared, as Angela was mentioning before. You really need to be sure that your speed and route to market is set up perfectly well.

Angela Zhou: I would suggest be proactive, do your shipping forecast; who knows when situations change. However, plan is always crucial. It's still top important and be aware of all the global uncertainties. From what we can say, shipping situation won't be improved in the near future yet. So be prepared for the mid to long term still.

Angela Zhou: And be agile and be resilient because, understand how early your product needs to get to your destination and then find out the most suitable shipping options, either air or ocean or air plus ocean in some situation, and be open with your freight forwarder partners, and share all your business plan.

Angela Zhou: And then get them to find out to the most cost-effective solution and be more cautious for temperature protection. I know historically, yeah, there are some protections in place. However, now maybe your cargo needs to travel longer or travel further, maybe more distance to get to the final market.

Angela Zhou: So think about all the risks in terms of temperature, humidity change. So either use insulation liner or use a reefer container for temperature control. So get your product protected; that will protect your product's brand, your own brand, and the plus that will increase your customer experience to your end consumers.

Chris Parker: Matteo?

Matteo Del Zoppo: Yes. I would add, Chris, an empowered visibility on all the supply change that helps to have an educated choice on how to move forward to move and which plan B to put in place in order to satisfy your customer requirements.

Matteo Del Zoppo: Crucial nowadays is to have a full set of visibility platforms and interconnectivity with all the supply chain actors that can help you taking a good advice on how to move and how to overcome some issues that we are seeing every day in supply chain, since many years now, that overcome to those issues in an agile way.

Andreas Buch: I think that's an excellent point. We all know right now that there are a lot of upstream challenges for the players in the industry. There is a lack of bottles and glasses. So there are bottlenecks, many different areas-

Chris Parker: Literally.

Andreas Buch: Oh yeah.

Chris Parker: Or lack thereof.

Andreas Buch: So we all know there are a lot of challenges right now, but I think if we discuss in advance and if we have a certain amount of planning and professionalism in terms of forecasting, then we can also execute on the plans, much more professional and agile, but it's all about communication and making sure that we execute on the plans. If we don't know the plan, that can be a tough one.

Chris Parker: Angela, I want to call you out a little bit because, at the beginning of the podcast, you said that the beer, wines, and spirits was a crisis-proof industry. After this conversation here, since we've talked about all this stuff, do you still believe that?

Angela Zhou: Yes, totally. Because COVID definitely have shifted BWS distribution to globally, especially shift from on-trade to off-trade because the hotel restaurants, bars, parks are closed. The people manage you to get BWS from supermarket or e-commerce, which is very convenient.

Angela Zhou: However, following the COVID situation improvement, we can see on-trade will return at some stage for sure. And people will still love gathering for business dinners, for parties. So on-trade will come back still. However, one of the notes this industry has been discussing was that the shippers or wineries, dealers need to be aware what kind of product you will put onto on-trade channel in the future.

Angela Zhou: Because people have been drinking at home. They have been drinking better, drinking difference, drinking more varieties. So they will expect the same experience will be happen on the on-trade channel going forward. So you probably need to be aware your entry levels, whether still suitable for your previous restaurant, and the people probably will get used to better quality or the complexity because their tasting buds already gets used to different product now. So you need to follow the consumers, tasting changes, and adjusting your distribution channel too.

Chris Parker: Yeah. So you're saying then, because of on-trade/off-trade, off-trade being at-home consumption. On trade, being consumption at hotels, restaurants, things like that.

Chris Parker: You're saying because the consumer behavior has changed. That's going to affect the makeup of on-trade consumption. The what-

Angela Zhou: In the future.

Chris Parker: ... is available, yeah. In the future, what is available at restaurants? What is available at the hotels? High-end establishments and things that. They're going to have different expectations when they decide to go out for dinner again.

Angela Zhou: Yes, totally. Yeah. Especially drinking at home spending so many time during COVID, people are more get used to or explore food-wine pairing, different bit of varieties. So they would definitely would like to continue the experience whenever, wherever they go in hotels.

Chris Parker: Absolutely. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. And I can already see myself having different expectations already. Right? If I'm going to go out to dinner, or I wanna-

Angela Zhou: See, that's a good reflection.

Chris Parker: No, I feel I've been studied, like someone has seen me, and I didn't even realize. All right, Angela, Andreas, Matteo, thank you so much for your time. I had a lot of fun talking about this. I think its beer, wine, and spirits is something that, for many years, I've also been really interested in and passionate about myself. I love to make cocktails at home. So it was really cool to understand this world that I didn't know really know much about behind the scenes. So really appreciate y'all taking the time. Thank you.

Matteo Del Zoppo: Do you know better now?

Chris Parker: I think I know a lot better now, especially if my beer tastes funky know who to yell at.

Matteo Del Zoppo: Glad to hear.

Angela Zhou: It's great.

Andreas Buch: It's a wonderful industry. You're welcome, Chris.

Chris Parker: Thanks for listening to today's episode. If you've got any questions or want to learn more about today's topic, check out the show notes for more information. And before you go, make sure you're subscribed on whatever podcast app you're using so you won't miss the next episode. To learn more about Expeditors, you can find us on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter, or simply visit us at expeditors.com. Take care, and I'll see you next time.